#and i think i've made enough similar posts in this vain to get the point across

[ducktracy]

i'm a bit too busy to write up a proper essay since i have a deadline to meet, so i'm stealing my own tags from last year's anniversary post since it expresses the sentiments i want to express, BUT the fact that i'm too busy in lieu of a deadline is extremely poetic in itself. 5 years ago today--which was also a Friday the 13th!--i got into Looney Tunes which has drastically changed every single aspect of my life. i'm working my dream job because of it. i've finally found my place in the world and have gotten so many wonderful opportunities and met so many wonderful friends and acquaintances and coworkers. i know it seems silly to commemorate but it really was like finding a puzzle piece that clicked into place that i never knew was missing and never knew how badly i needed it clicked INTO place. seriously can't stress just how much it was needed and how grateful i am to be doing what i'm doing. i'm sure one day i'll make a more intelligible post more accurately articulating my gratitude, but for now i just wanted to give a shout since 5 years is nothing to sneeze at and i feel it's really only just the beginning. of what, i'm not sure! but i have my career and friends and livelihood and perhaps even my life here because of it and so it's important for me to commemorate. thank you for supporting me through it all!

[thiswaycomessomethingwicked]

for the quiet night in ask: how did Grima make his way into your heart? And why do you ship him with Eomer? I've been meaning to inquire about this for long hehe (also I love your theme! think this is the first time I see it)

I am so sorry, you’re getting an ESSAY. 

I’ve been wanting to talk about my Grima feels FOR SO LONG. 

HE SNAKED HIS WAY INTO MY HEART. 

Um, tl;dr I have a soft spot for the bad guys who clearly have a complicated history with those they are opposing and I think Eomer/Grima have a fun opposites-attract dynamic and I love a good redemption story. 

I don’t touch on literacy and Grima in this because that’s strictly the films and it’s worthy of it’s own post entirely. 

-

I’m trying to think best how to break this all out, because it gets a bit long and rambly. I’m using both book and films for this, as a note. Since I tend to mash up different aspects of those Grima’s in my head, give the guy some eyebrows, and call it a day. 

So, first off, his history. Now, we don’t really have anything to go on in canon here. All we know, in both book and film, is that Grima “was once a man of Rohan” (ROTK). In the book, Gandalf says: “This here, is a snake. To slay it [Grima] would be just. But it was not always as it is now. Once it was a man, and it did you service in its fashion.” 

Grima evidently has served Rohan for some years at this point. We know that Theoden’s enchantment/possession began three years prior to TTT. In the books there is no possession. Theoden’s enchantment relies on the powers of words and their suggestions. Something Tolkien was well aware of carrying great weight and import in Anglo-Saxon culture. You tell a man he is old and infirm, he will become old and infirm. 

I understand why Jackson went the possession route - explaining Anglo-Saxon engagement with galdorcraeft/witchcraft and the power of words etc. and how that influenced the development of Rohan in the span of like 7 minutes of screen time wasn’t happening. Possession works for the same purpose, but in a language the modern audience is familiar with - especially in visual mediums. Grima is circa 40 when TTT happens, same age as Boromir for reference. So, let’s say he’s been an advisor for 10/12 years at this point. He has therefore been a good servant of the king longer than he’s been a traitor. 

Hence, the outreach. And, in Brad Dourif’s wonderful acting, Grima’s clear desire to go home to his king. In the book it’s more subtle. Grima chucks the palantir out the window at Orthanc and it’s stated that he wasn’t sure who he was aiming for, Saruman or Gandalf, because he couldn’t decide who he hated more. 

Honestly? Legit. I would also hate the guy who reduced me to “it” pronouns. But maybe that’s my gender identity stuff playing up ;) 

(Granted, in the full quote Gandalf reverts back to “he”, for context. And I’ve said this before, in another post, that it makes sense for Gandalf and as a writer, I agree with Tolkien’s decisions for that scene.)

Now, for some speculation. Not that I haven’t spilled a tonne already. MORE SPECULATION. This time bringing you long term effects of bullying and never having loving relationships modelled for you! Because LOTR, at the end of the day, is all about trauma and how maybe not to deal with it. 

So - motives. 

We know Saruman’s motives. Indeed, he tells them to us in FOTRK: “[to] have power, power to order all things as we will, for that good which only the Wise can see” and to achieve “the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends.”

Great. Super straight forward. And from the man’s own mouth. 

Grima’s though, always come to us second hand. In the books it’s Gandalf telling us (Gandalf can mind read, so yes, maybe he is accurate). In the films, it’s Eomer guestimating. 

But Grima never actually tells us, himself, what his motives are. 

(a quick aside: if some dude is shoving me up against a pole and threatening me, and I hear someone walking by, of course I’m going to look over at them and it by no means indicates my desire to shag that person. Now, of course, we know from other scenes this is the case. I’m just saying. It’s natural to look over at the person walking by while you’re being jumped by the Third Marshal of the Mark who is twice your size. anyway.) 

So what are his driving forces for treason? What made him go to this point of no return then keep going even when people offered him a way back. 

It is important to note that his treason required him to forswear his oath to his liege lord. I don’t know how to convey what a big deal that would have been, in modern terms. But it would have been huge. Forswearing/reneging on oaths was a massive cultural taboo in Anglo-saxon [AS] England (and general, early medieval Europe). 

And, as Rohan is based on AS England (I forget if Tolkien was cagey about this. He was sometimes a dumb shit and coy about things so was like “noooo it’s not STRICTLY AS England….but it’s clearly AS England with more horses and a light dusting of vikings and the Danelaw”), we can assume it carried as much weight for them as it did for the historical people. 

(Indeed, it’s implied, if not directly stated, in the text what a big deal oath breaking is. Don’t say “oath breaking” too loud or the Silmarillion fandom will come out of the woodwork)

The big takeaway: BIG DEAL TO FORSWEAR YOUR OATH. 

And he did it! Which is why I don’t buy the “it was because of Eowyn and like some nice jewels.” You don’t betray your country, you don’t forswear your oath to your king, simply because you’re hot on the king’s niece and Saruman might give you a raise. 

And, as a liege man to Theoden, he was part of Theoden’s household so would have eaten, worked with, lived with everyone else in the household (Eomer, until he becomes Third Marshal; Eowyn; Hama; Theoden’s guards etc.) 

So, you live with these people, eat with them, drink with them, spend all your time with them, for circa 10 years then you do a bunk and betray them? Something happened. I suspect it was years and years of things happening. 

Overall, I think it to be a combination of things. As is usually the case for these sorts of crimes. In this case, a nice mix of fear, desperation, greed, resentment, anger and desire. 

Fear/Desperation: So, to Grima’s mind the world is ending. Why wouldn’t he think this? Hell, even the Wisest and the Fairest (i.e. wizards & elves) think it’s ending. Why wouldn’t this poor bloke from some small country nearby to Mordor not think it an existential threat to an unimaginable degree? 

Grima is sat here in Rohan looking at Mordor going "oh fuck" then who are the leaders left? Denethor (slightly bonkers) and Theoden (past his prime and lacklustre, like his father and grandfather). 

This is not a man with a strong moral fiber. Or...any moral fiber, let’s be real. He does not have the fortitude to stick it out through hopeless situations. And it would have been hopeless to his eyes. And those around him (see: Eomer’s do not trust to hope… Sure Saruman was a problem, but he wasn’t just talking about the white wizard).  

Gandalf’s plan, which none of these people were ever wholly aware of, was a goddamn Hail Mary pass and it worked. Barely, but it did. NO ONE had reason to believe it would, though. And those are people in the know. Not someone like Grima who has no fucking clue what Gandalf et al is up to. He sees Gandalf then like … Nazgul torture him on the planes of Rohan (Unfinished Tales). He sees Gandalf then bad things happen. 

Lathspell indeed. 

Greed & Desire: I don’t think I need to go into these ones too much. They’re pretty self explanatory. Grima and Black Phillip hung out and the goat asked Grima if he wanted to live deliciously and Grima, like any normal person, said: um, yes please? Also, Eowyn was around being badass, beautiful and untouchable. 

Resentment/Anger: Alright, more probing in the dark. I suspect, for one reason or another (and these reasons would vary depending if you’re looking at books or movies), he was someone who was always treated as other/differently, teased, picked on, isolated, overlooked, doesn’t measure up to Rohan’s military ideal of masculinity. All of which creates an underlying resentment issue.

And nothing festers quite like resentment. 

On top of that, I also suspect he was always told he was a snake/untrustworthy/not worthy etc. and if you're told something enough, and you don't have anything or anyone else telling you the opposite, there is a strong chance you become that thing.

It's a chicken and egg: the face you wear to the world tells the world how to treat you; the world tells you what you are and that is how you shape your face.

THEN you add in Saruman. Who is clearly, in the text, abusive. Which, if there were any inferiority/bullied etc. issues that are informing Grima’s actions, Saruman is just going to amplify it. 

“You are a traitor because you’re a snake, and you’re a snake because you’re spineless, weak, nothing more than a creature that crawls on its stomach on the ground. Snakes are bad, evil things. Which is all you’ve ever been. Barely deserving of the good treatment I give you etc.” <-- all of which is basically a summary of what Saruman has been saying to him for a few years at this point (in the book, it’s only tangentially implied in the movies). 

So Grima sort of morphed himself into what he believed himself to be, fuelled by that perversity resentment causes: Oh you think I’m a snake? I’ll be the best goddamn most poisonous snake you ever did see. Just watch me. 

He is trapped in this situation. A hutch to trammel some wild thing in. 

Which leads me to an interesting point that I think gets lost sometimes: Narratively, he and Eowyn are similar in what they are experiencing. Isolation, being overlooked, misunderstood/misrepresented, don't fit into societal roles and expectations etc. They just go in very different directions in how they respond to it.

I think that's why, in the film, it was smart to have her give pause and listen to him because what he's saying resonates. He is, in some ways, speaking as much for himself as her. But then, of course, he's also just trying to shit disturb and make mischief so of course, at the end of the day, any sympathy he is attempting to convey is laced with poison.

I do wonder, too, if he's the first person to see her fear and her frustrations and acknowledges them out loud. Which is powerful. To have someone see you. Damn shame it's Grima. Still, Eowyn (in the film) paused and listened for a reason.

-

A brief aside on my idle, ill founded thoughts on gender and Rohan: 

One of the reasons I think Eowyn and Grima go in diverging directions, is that Eowyn is performing masculinity, in her society's accepted interpretation of it. Masculinity, in Middle Earth, is clearly the norm. And in Rohan, it’s a very particular iteration of military-focused masculinity that is idealized (you can bet, men who killed like 10 orcs were awarded places in court above Grima who served as advisor for like ten years but hasn’t killed an orc ever).

Eowyn’s desire to live/perform this more masculine ideal caters to the subconscious thing of “Masculinity is Natural Neutral Ideal” so of course you would want to be more like A Man. Whereas Grima is the opposite, not performing masculinity according to Rohan's accepted view of it.

And gods, in Anglo-Saxon culture (therefore, Rohan’s, most likely. I see no evidence to the contrary) is that a difficult position to find yourself in. Back in AS England, being called argr, unmanly, or to be accused of ergri, unmanliness, was one of the worst insults you could throw at a man (indeed, some laws said you could kill a man in retaliation for calling you such things). I would bet my shirt that people used such insults about Grima in this world. Which is all kinds of messed up.

-

Now, my interest in him is my general love for a good redemption arc for the most hopeless of characters. It’s why I struggle to call Boromir’s arc, when he’s written as living, a redemption arc. Because I don’t know he has much to redeem himself for. In his own mind, sure, yes, but externally? Not in my view, at least. He has things he’s done wrong and needs to make amends for. But that’s different from redemption.

Grima, on the other hand, is one whose walk-back from evil would be a full on redemption arc. And I like it because he’s not nice, he’s not pleasant. He will never be nice or pleasant or cheerful. But learning how to love and be a good person doesn’t require niceness. 

Saruman could be plenty nice. Sauron could be plenty nice. Look what they turned out to be.

And in my writing, I do hope I’m treading that line between creating an understanding of who Grima is without Kylo-Ren-ing him. Or, woobiefying him, as the old parlance was. That’s the line I’m really aiming for. I want people to not hate him. I want them to understand him. Oh, still condemn him, still judge him, disagree with him, acknowledge and know he did bad things and isn’t a nice person. But the end game is to add some understanding and nuance.

Shades of grey.

Also I’m a sucker for challenging redemptions.

--

Why Eomer/Grima? 

Because I am an agent of chaos. 

More seriously, I was never overly taken with the Grima/Eowyn approach, personally, which is obviously popular (um...within the Grima world), and closer to canon. There are some beautifully written fics and art out there for the two of them, so if you’re into that. The creators in that nook of fandom are top notch.

I always liked the drastic opposite of Grima and Eomer. As I noted above, Grima and Eowyn are two sides of the same coin. Both bitter and resentful and trapped. And that’s a lot of fun to play with, and i get it. But for me, I love a good strong contrast of personalities in my pairings. (If that uh … isn’t readily apparent.)

I think both Eomer and Grima would have a lot to teach each other and in some really interesting ways that neither would expect. I can see both getting under each other’s skin in that way where you’re sort of always thinking about them.

Grima is also someone who has had very little love in his life (I suspect he wants it, he just doesn’t know how to give or receive it). Eomer is someone who has lost a lot of people (parents, quasi-uncle for a few years there. I think it’s why he’s so controlling over Eowyn. Didn’t want to lose her). And I think there’s something in there where they could help each other grow. But I’m a sucker for some beauty to be there, in the end. Some hope.

Mostly, though, I think it boils down to their dynamic and the angst potential. Eomer is this brash, forthright, fiery third marshal of the mark who may or may not think things through. Big of heart, dumb of ass. Then there’s Grima who is quiet and reserved, cynical, critical, always has a plan or five, gets by via his wits etc. Lots of fun potential there. 

[lightgriffinsect]

OKAY I'M BACK! XD I HAD TO TAKE A WHILE OFF TO SCREAM BECAUSE

NEW PSYCHIC LORE

I REALLY NEED HELP

Anyway. We were talking about Psi and Void.

Yes, it seems there are people who say they're related for the funnies, and then there are people who actually genuinely assume they're related, etc. This typically happens on covers featuring them on youtube, I haven't seen it much anywhere else. I always thought it was kinda interesting, kinda funny that they wear similar outfits. And they're both purple! It's the afton family!

It is interesting how this purely fanon friendship has made it onto the wiki, but Void and Miku hasn't, nor has him and Agoti, or Cyrix. I mean Cyrix is briefly mentioned in the trivia section, but that's about it. Other than Space Gang, Radi and Sumire, Flocky, and for some reason Psychic, none of these other characters are mentioned on the list of relationships.

(Wonder who edited the Psychic wiki?)

Anyway I believe this post was originally about Psyvoid. Yeahh. I've ranted about this before XD, so I don't want to dump my opinion too heavily onto this post. I personally don't like it, for how random and ooc it seems. Void as you said, isn't someone who could commit himself to a relationship. Psychic, as I mentioned, isn't someone who is looking for a relationship. Neither of them are in a position for love, and neither of them want it, not in the form of a long-term relationship.

I can only imagine what kind of circumstances would lead them to meet and actually get to know each other in the first place. Given that Void and the Dearests are both famous, powerful, and influential Music People, they could easily cross paths given that Void happened to be on or near Earth at some point. And given that Psychic is literally DD's bestie as his wiki now mentions (it came with the update ^^) it wouldn't be too far-fetched to assume that he and the Dearests happen to be together at a time when they first meet Void.

After that, what happens? How could Void, literally the most famous person in the galaxy, and Psychic, the Dearests' (not-so-lowly but we know it doesn't matter to Void, everyone is below him) assistant, actually interact enough in a way that leaves them thinking positively of the other, for this ship to become a reality?

Even a friendship would definitely start out on rocky grounds. It's next to impossible that they'd trust each other at all in the beginning. Void's dislike of the Dearests, probably only intensified by his dislike of BF, who's basically on their side, would automatically lead to him disliking Psychic too. Psychic is not out here trying to make a ton of friends, he's very stoic and reserved around anyone who isn't the Dearests. If anyone's going to be initiating friendship bracelet making sessions, it's not gonna be Psi. Both Void and Psychic are naturally wary and do not trust easily. And all this is assuming they make a fantastic first impression on each other.

In-universe, their similar designs would cause friction between them too. Void is vain and wants the spotlight on him at all times. Of course he won't like it when Psychic shows up in his life, coincidentally the same color as him and with a similar outfit. Even if Psychic could not care less about Void's image (which we KNOW he doesn't, that's not who Psychic is), Void's gonna assume he's stealing his flair and hate him instantly. It's not like Psi's out here intentionally trying to steal the attention. Psychic doesn't even like being in the public eye, not unless it's necessary for the Dearests' sake. But Void doesn't care, because Void only ever thinks about how other people's actions are affecting him.

The way Void only ever thinks about himself, only ever feels for his own sake, and does everything on the basis of how much it'll benefit him. He's the one in the spotlight literally all the time. It's always been about Void. Everything and everyone eventually traces back to Void in some way.

The way Psychic senses everything around him, is practically everything around him, and as a result hardly ever does things for his own sake, the way his entire being revolves around the Dearests. He doesn't have a public voice of his own. He hardly uses his own voice to begin with! It's all just telepathy, everything he says. It's just thoughts. Never spoken words.

They look so alike, but the truth is so different. They clash so well. A telepath and a destroyer of worlds. One sees everything for what it is, the other sees everything as himself and nothing more.

I can't get over their initial enmity and how they could potentially come to an understanding and become tentative friends(?). Wow.

...

Onto the thing about Psychic having no associates outside the Dearests and BF! (who he CANONICALLY DISLIKES LES GOOOOO)

I find it super interesting, again. I do like the point you made, that Psi's integrity as a character and mod, and his deep ties to the base game, are sort of preserved in this way. He definitely comes more across as a base FNF character, than say, the Starlight Mayhem characters (ig? XD)

It might have to do with his name. "Psychic" was originally intended to be a temporary name, but River decided to make it permanent as they liked how it fit with the other characters. I agree with their sentiment! It really does make Psi seem like he's connected more to the base characters in this way. He as a character depends entirely on the Dearests after all, why not give him a name that basically explains his entire identity?

That and how he has no affiliates from other mods. River did mention on Twitter that Psi is currently "friendless (for now until more ppl wanna make their characters be frens with him)"

They also mentioned that the best fitting character for Psychic to befriend is Solazar. Idk how that might play out considering Sol hates demons and the Dearests, and Psychic works for the Dearests. Even though Psi isn't even a demon, I doubt that would matter to Sol. They're all the same to him. (But if they did become friends then hoo boy, the world's gonna burn.)

I do think his lack of canon friends outside his mod is kind of what makes him unique, and keeps him closely tied to base FNF, a trait that could easily be lost with adding even 1-2 more characters into the equation.

Psyvoid basically ensures exactly that. It easily could have been just "Void". And just "Psychic". No connection to each other- they could be friends, but it's not a major aspect of their mods in relation to the FNF universe. Instead you have "Void and Psychic". Or "Psychic and Void", however you wanna put it. They're tied together now, all because they happen to look somewhat similar and a few cover makers decided that warranted them being paired up in every BETADCIU. They're two peas in a pod. The Purple Guys, the Michael and William Afton of FNF. It's helped their mods both survive, too.

Psychic's Gamebanana/Game Jolt (idk which one his mod is on) page apparently still has more views than Void's, according to the order of their Funkipedia pages. Funny considering that Void is clearly more popular and more well-known within the fandom itself, perhaps owing to the V2 update from last year. Psychic's mod hasn't been updated since December 31st of 2021. It's been almost as dormant as base FNF XD. Last February River did say the mod would be updated (8 new songs!) but after that I haven't sourced any news in the <1 day that I've found this out.

But Psychic's relationship with Void, no matter how you season it, is absolutely at least partially responsible for Mind Games' survival till 2023. Of course the mod was doing well on its own, probably definitely due to the BF scream clip from the demo, and up till the end of 2021 Psychic had his fair share of appearances in covers, etc. However, after that, with the explosive return of Hex's Weekend Update, which happened to be the day after Mind Games Week 1 released, and later on the huge Online Vs. and Indie Cross updates that shook the fandom as a whole, it was inevitable that Psi would just kind of fade into the background, like many other classic OC mods. Even the classic OC mods like Whitty, Carol, Sarvente, and Garcello have been mostly forgotten. With a new generation of FNF fans and the constant updates and news from the Big 5 Creepypasta mods, the OCs have been pushed to the side, with occasional callbacks to the golden era in the form of Twinsomnia and Radi.

Psychic and Void, as a character dynamic, fanon or canon, has kept both their mods subsisting. That's how a lot of mods have stayed alive for so long. Space Gang all rely on each other to stay afloat. Tabi and the Entity mod are so, so deeply entwined with each other's stories and have been from the very beginning. In the same way Mind Games relies on Vs. Void, perhaps more than Void has ever relied on Psychic, given the popularity of each mod.

(You're unfortunately right that Psychic (partly) only became more popular in covers thanks to Void XD. Again, it's because of their purple synergy. Void is the more popular of them in the fandom, and Psychic is just a way for Void to be used more. He's a means to the end of BETADCIU creators :'D)

It's a lot like their dynamic in-universe, or like their potentiality of one, however it is now. Void is famous. He's known throughout the Milky Way. He has so much influence over all the worlds, Psychic could only dream of having that level of impact on everything around him- as himself, as Psychic, not as the subordinate to the Dearests. But then Psychic isn't here to be famous. He's not here for fame or recognition, the way Void always has been, all Void knows. He's here to serve. He doesn't like attention, like I mentioned earlier. Who knows how many times he's looked at the Dearests from backstage, at all they've experiences, all they've done, and been grateful for their help but relieved that he's not a main character.

Psychic knows he isn't a main character, and Void fiercely believes he is one. How could anyone else be, but A.C. Void? Psychic knows better. He sees everything more clearly than Void ever has, being so much less biased towards himself, and so much more self-aware. Psychic never inserts himself into anything, unless the need arises, unless it's a matter of his first priority- the Dearests. Only then does he show up, take care of it efficiently and quietly, and then disappear backstage once more.

pondering about psyvoid because of a certain artist leaving twitter

(below is just speculation/interpretation please don't burn me like a witch)

as far as i know there aren't many ships with psi (other than the x oc ones), right? because his character is so…isolated? at least i got from the wiki that he has no canonically established relationships with anyone outside of the mod

so, taken from my own experience with fandoms, anyone from outside would inevitably get latched onto by the shipping enthusiasts to fill the void

speaking of which, guess who gets paired up with him in most cover videos

what im trying to say is the formation of psyvoid is basically because they're both purple, but that's really on cover makers